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Du froid

“Weather is fate”

— Charles Louis de Secondat, Baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu

“Road to Versailles at Louveciennes” 1869 Camille Pissarro

Heat tracing is a process used to maintain or raise the temperature of pipes and vessels in order to prevent freezing, maintain process temperature, or ensure that products remain fluid and flow through the system properly.  Without electric heat tracing; much of the earth would be uninhabitable.

Heat tracing works by using an electric heating cable or tape that is wrapped around the pipe or vessel, and then insulated to help retain the heat. The heating cable is connected to a power source and temperature control system that maintains the desired temperature by regulating the amount of heat output from the cable. Heat tracing is commonly used in industrial applications where temperature control is critical, such as in chemical plants, refineries, and oil and gas facilities.

There are several types of heat tracing, including electric heat tracing, steam tracing, and hot water tracing, each of which have their own unique advantages and disadvantages. The selection of the appropriate type of heat tracing depends on the specific application and the required temperature range, as well as factors such as cost, maintenance, and safety considerations.

Heat Tracing for Piping Specification | NECA Standards (N.B. Link unstable)

2026 NEC CMP-17 Public Input Report | 2026 NEC CMP-17 Second Draft Report

Northern Michigan University | Marquette County

Today we review the literature for snow and ice management (and enjoyment) produced by these standards-setting organizations:

Accredited Snow Contractors Association

American Society of Civil Engineers

American Society of Mechanical Engineers

ASTM International

FM Global

Destructive Deep Freeze Strikes Cold and Hot Regions Alike

Institute of Electrical & Electronic Engineers

Electrical Heat Tracing: International Harmonization — Now and in the Future

International Code Council

International Building Code: Chapter 15 Roof Assemblies and Rooftop Structures

National Electrical Contractors Association

National Fire Protection Association

Winter is Coming: Is Your Facility Protected? (Holly Burgess, November 2022)

National Electrical Code: Articles 426-427

National Floor Safety Institute

Snow and Ice Management Association

Underwriters Laboratories

Manufacturers:

Chromalox Electrical Heat Tracing Systems Design Guide


It is a surprisingly large domain with market-makers in every dimension of safety and sustainability; all of whom are bound by state and federal regulations.

Join us at 16:00 UTC with the login credentials at the upper right of our home page.


There have been several recent innovations that have made it possible for construction activity to continue through cold winter months. Some of the most notable ones include:

  1. Heated Job Site Trailers: These trailers are equipped with heating systems that keep workers warm and comfortable while they take breaks or work on plans. This helps to keep morale up and prevent cold-related health issues.
  2. Insulated Concrete Forms (ICFs): ICFs are prefabricated blocks made of foam insulation that are stacked together to form the walls of a building. The foam insulation provides an extra layer of insulation to keep the building warm during cold winter months.
  3. Warm-Mix Asphalt (WMA): WMA is a type of asphalt that is designed to be used in colder temperatures than traditional hot-mix asphalt. This allows road construction crews to work through the winter months without having to worry about the asphalt cooling and becoming unusable.
  4. Pneumatic Heaters: These heaters are used to warm up the ground before concrete is poured. This helps to prevent the concrete from freezing and becoming damaged during the winter months.
  5. Electrically Heated Mats: These mats are placed on the ground to prevent snow and ice from accumulating. This helps to make the job site safer and easier to work on during the winter months.

Overall, these innovations have made it possible for construction crews to work through the winter months more comfortably and safely, which has helped to keep projects on schedule and minimize delays.

Somewhat related:

Why so much slip and fall attorney advertisements after SCOTUS Bates v. State Bar of Arizona (1977)

Electrical heat tracing: international harmonization-now and in the future

 

 

 

Catalog: BUILDERS HARDWARE MANUFACTURER ASSOCIATION

 

Builders Hardware Manufacturer Association Standards Catalog

ARCHIVE: April 6, 2019

The Builders Hardware Manufacturers Association (BHMA) is an ANSI accredited standards developing organization for building access and egress technology that education industry real asset managers find referenced deep in the architectural and electrical sections of construction contract specifications (as in “Conform to all applicable standards”).  Architects, electrical, fire protection and information and communications technology professionals usually have to collaborate on the design, construction. operations and maintenance of fenestration technologies.

Gone are the days when a door was just a door (or “opening” or “fenestration”).   Doors are now portals; an easily identifiable control point in the Internet of Things electrotechnical transformation.  There are 100’s of thousands of them on large research university campus; for example.  As we explain in our School Security Standards post the pace of standardization in public safety management and technology has increased; driven by events.  Some of the risk management can be accomplished with integrated technical solutions that are complex and more expensive to design, build, operate and maintain.

A fair estimate of the annualized cost of a door now runs on the order of $1000 to $10,000 per door (with hospital doors at the high end).

Loreto Secondary School | Kilkenny, Ireland

BHMA develops and maintains performance standards for locks, closers, exit devices and other builders hardware.  It has more than 40 ANSI/BHMA  standards. The widely known ANSI/BHMA A156 series of standards describes and establishes features and criteria for an array of builders hardware products including locks, closers, exit devices, butts, hinges, power-operated doors and access control products.   They are listed on the link below:

BHMA Standards Home Page

BHMA has opened one of its standards for public review that is relevant to our contribution to the security and sustainability agenda of the education facility industry; an agenda that necessarily involves a growing constellation of interacting specifics

BHMA A156.4 Standard for Door Controls – Closers.  This Standard contains requirements for door closers surface mounted, concealed in the door, overhead concealed, and concealed in the floor. Also included are pivots for floor closers. Criteria for conformance include cycle, operational, closing force, and finish tests.

Given that BHMA consensus products are largely product standards (much the same way UL Standards are product standards) it is wise to keep an eye on a related installation standards found in the fenestration sections of model building and fire safety codes and in ASTM E2112  Standard Practice for Installation of Exterior Windows, Doors and Skylights.

Comments are due May 6th.  You may obtain an electronic copies of any of the foregoing from [email protected] and send comments to the same (with copy to [email protected]).

Roxbury Community College | Roxbury Crossing, Massachusetts

The BHMA suite is on the standing agenda of our monthly Construction Specification and Design Guideline teleconference; an informal session that should interest building contractors and design professionals who prepare documents that use the general purpose clause: “Conform to all applicable standards”.   That usually means the latest standard.  See our CALENDAR for the next online meeting; open to everyone.

 

Issue: [19-129]

Category: Architectural, Electrical, Facility Asset Management, Telecommunication, Public Safety, #SmartCampus, Risk Management

Colleagues: Mike Anthony, Jim Harvey. Jim Vibbart

 

LEARN MORE:

BHMA Standards Revision Status Tracking

 

 

Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg in 5 Minuten

KI und der Beitrag von Standards

Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster

Managing and Understanding Artificial Intelligence Solutions

The AI-Methods, Capabilities and Criticality Grid and its Value for Decision Makers, Developers and Regulators

Freely Available ICT Standards

United States Technical Advisory Group Administrator: INCITS

“Le Lac Léman ou Près d’Evian au lac de Genève” 1883 François BocionISO and IEC Joint Technical Committee 1  is the work center for international information and communications technology (ICT) standards that are relevant to education communities.  In accordance with ISO/IEC JTC 1 and the ISO and IEC Councils, some International Standards and other deliverables are made freely available for standardization purposes.

Freely Available International Standards

We at least follow action, and sometimes contribute data and user-interest perspective, to the development of standards produced by several ANSI-accredited ICT standard developing organizations — ATIS, BICSI, IEEE, INCITS, TIA among them.  US-based organizations may communicate directly with Lisa Rajchel, ANSI’s ISO/IEC JTC 1 Senior Director for this project: [email protected].  Our colleagues at other educational organizations should contact their national standards body.

We scan the status of Infotech and Cloud standards periodically and collaborate with a number of IEEE Societies.  See our CALENDAR for the next online meeting; open to everyone.

More

The ISO/IEC Joint Technical Committee for Information Technology (JTC 1)

ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 36 Information technology for learning, education and training

ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 32 Data management and interchange

Cambridge Center for Smart Infrastructure & Construction

“Clare Hall and King’s College Chapel, Cambridge, from the Banks of the River Cam” / Joseph Mallord William Turner (1793)

 

Smart Infrastructure: Getting More From Strategic Assets

Dr Jennifer Schooling, Director of CSIC

Dr Ajith Parlikad, CSIC Co-Investigator and Senior Lecturer

Mark Enzer, Global Water Sector Leader

Mott MacDonald; Keith Bowers, Principal Tunnel Engineer, London Underground

Ross Dentten, Asset Information and Configuration Manager, Crossrail

Matt Edwards, Asset Maintenance and Information Manager, Anglian Water Services

Jerry England, Group Digital Railway Director, Network Rail

Volker Buscher, Director, Arup Digital

 

Smart Infrastructure is a global opportunity worth £2trn-4.8trn. The world is experiencing a fourth industrial revolution due to the rapid development of technologies and digital abundance.

Smart Infrastructure involves applying this to economic infrastructure for the benefit of all stakeholders. It will allow owners and operators to get more out of what they already have, increasing capacity, efficiency and resilience and improving services.

It brings better performance at lower cost. Gaining more from existing assets is the key to enhancing service provision despite constrained finance and growing resource scarcity. It will often be more cost-effective to add to the overall value of mature infrastructure via digital enhancements than by physical enhancements – physical enhancements add `more of the same’, whereas digital enhancements can transform the existing as well.

Smart Infrastructure will shape a better future. Greater understanding of the performance of our infrastructure will allow new infrastructure to be designed and delivered more efficiently and to provide better whole-life value.

Data is the key – the ownership of it and the ability to understand and act on it. Industry, organisations and professionals need to be ready to adjust in order to take advantage of the emerging opportunities. Early adopters stand to gain the most benefit. Everyone in the infrastructure sector has a choice as to how fast they respond to the changes that Smart Infrastructure will bring. But everyone will be affected.

Change is inevitable. Progress is optional. Now is the time for the infrastructure industry to choose to be Smart.

 

LEARN MORE:

Cambridge Centre for Smart Infrastructure and Construction

Perspective: Since this paper is general in its recommendations, we provide examples of specific campus infrastructure data points that are difficult, if not impossible, to identify and “make smart” — either willfully, for lack of funding, for lack of consensus, for lack of understanding or leadership:

    1. Maintenance of the digital location of fire dampers in legacy buildings or even new buildings mapped with BIM.  Doors and ceiling plenums are continually being modified and the As-Built information is usually not accurate.  This leads to fire hazard and complicates air flow and assuring occupant temperature preferences (i.e. uncontrollable hot and cold spots) 
    2. Ampere readings of feeder breakers downstream from the electric service main.  The power chain between the service substation and the end-use equipment is a “no-man’s land” in research facilities that everyone wants to meter but few ever recover the cost of the additional metering.
    3. Optimal air flow rates in hospitals and commercial kitchens that satisfies both environmental air hazards and compartmentalized air pressure zones for fire safety.
    4. Identification of students, staff and faculty directly affiliated with the campus versus visitors to the campus.
    5. Standpipe pressure variations in municipal water systems
    6. Pinch points in municipal sewer systems in order to avoid building flooding.
    7. How much of university data center cost should be a shared (gateway) cost, and how much should be charged to individual academic and business units?
    8. Should “net-zero” energy buildings be charged for power generated at the university central heating and electric generation plant?
    9. How much staff parking should be allocated to academic faculty versus staff that supports the healthcare delivery enterprises; which in many cases provides more revenue to the university than the academic units?
    10. Finally, a classical conundrum in facility management spreadsheets: Can we distinguish between maintenance cost (which should be covered under an O&M budget) and capital improvement cost (which can be financed by investors)

 

 

Canadian Parliament Debate on Standards Incorporated by Reference

“The Jack Pine” | Tom Thomson (1916) | National Gallery of Canada

 

Originally posted January 2014

In these clips — selected from Canadian Parliamentary debate in 2013 — we observe three points of view about Incorporation by reference (IBR); a legislative drafting technique that is the act of including a second document within a main document by referencing the second document.

This technique makes an entire second (or referenced) document a part of the main document.  The consensus documents in which we advocate #TotalCostofOwnership concepts are incorporated by reference into legislation dealing with safety and sustainability at all levels of government.  This practice — which many consider a public-private partnership — is a more effective way of driving best practices for technology, and the management of technology, into regulated industries.

Parent legislation — such as the Higher Education Act of 1965, the Clean Air Act and the Energy Policy Act – almost always require intermediary bureaucracies to administer the specifics required to accomplish the broad goals of the legislation.  With the gathering pace of governments everywhere expanding their influence over larger parts of the technologies at the foundation of national economies; business and technology standards are needed to secure that influence.  These standards require competency in the application of political, technical and financial concepts; competencies that can only be afforded by incumbent interests who build the cost of their advocacy into the price of the product or service they sell to our industry.  Arguably, the expansion of government is a reflection of the success of incumbents in business and technical standards; particularly in the compliance and conformity industries.

About two years ago, the US debate on incorporation by reference has been taken to a new level with the recent statement released by the American Bar Association (ABA):

16-164-Incorporation-by-Reference-ABA-Resolution-and-Report

The American National Standards Institute responded to the ABA with a statement of its own.

16-164-ANSI-Response-to-ABA-IBR-06-16 (1)

The incorporation by reference policy dilemma has profound implications for how we safely and economically design, operate and maintain our “cities-within-cities” in a sustainable manner but, admittedly, the results are only visible in hindsight over a time horizon that often exceed the tenure of a typical college or university president.

A recent development — supporting the claims of ANSI and its accredited standards developers — is noteworthy:

The National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST) manages a website — Standards.GOV — that is a single access point for consensus standards incorporated by reference into the Code of Federal Regulations: Standards Incorporated by Reference Database.   Note that this database does not include specific reference to safety and sustainability codes which are developed by standards setting organizations (such as NFPA, ICC, IEEE, ASHRAE and others) and usually incorporated by reference into individual state public safety and technology legislation.

LEARN MORE:

 

Mechanical 330

During today’s colloquium we audit the literature that sets the standard of care for mechanical engineering design, construction operations and maintenance of campus district energy systems — typically miles (kilometers) of large underground pipes and wires that characterize a district energy system.  Topically, Mechanical 400 deals with energy systems “outside” or “between” buildings; whereas Mechanical 200 deals with energy systems within an individual building envelope.

2021 International Mechanical Code

Mechanical Engineering Courses

A campus district energy system is a centralized heating and cooling network that supplies thermal energy to multiple buildings within a defined area, such as a college or university campus. The system generates steam, hot water, or chilled water at a central plant, which is then distributed through an underground network of pipes to individual buildings for space heating, domestic hot water, and air conditioning. By consolidating energy production and distribution, campus district energy systems can achieve significant energy and cost savings compared to individual building systems, as well as reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve reliability and resiliency of the energy supply.

"I've always been interested in building systems that can understand and respond to natural language. It's one of the most challenging and fascinating problems in AI" - Stephen Wolfram"The golden rule of elevator safety states 'Its either you're in or out'" - Facilities Management

School Construction News (September 24) | Arizona State University: Helping Higher Ed: Solutions to Advance Sustainability Goals in Campus Mechanical Systems

We track standards setting in the bibliographies of the following organizations:

AHRI | Air Conditioning, Heating & Refrigeration Institute

ASHRAE | American Society of Heating & Refrigeration Engineers

ASHRAE Guideline 14: Measurement of Energy and Demand Savings

ASHRAE Guideline 22: Instrumentation for Monitoring Central Chilled Water Plant Efficiency

Facility Smart Grid Information Model

ASME | American Society of Mechanical Engineers

ASPE | American Association of Plumbing Engineers

ASTM | American Society for Testing & Materials

AWWA | American Water Works Association

AHRI | Air Conditioning, Heating & Refrigeration Institute

IAPMO | International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials

IEC | International Electrotechnical Commission

Institute of Electric and Electronic Engineers

Research on the Implementation Path Analysis of Typical District Energy Internet

Expansion Co-Planning of Integrated Electricity-Heat-Gas Networks in District Energy Systems

Towards a Software Infrastructure for District Energy Management

 

IMC | International Mechanical Code

IDEA | International District Energy Association

District Energy Best Practices Handbook

District Energy Assessment Tool

IPC | International Plumbing Code

ISEA | International Safety Equipment Association

NFPA | National Fire Protection Association

SMACNA | Sheet Metal Contractors National Association

UL | Underwriters Laboratories

UpTime Institute

(All relevant OSHA Standards)

It is a large domain and virtually none of the organizations listed above deal with district energy systems outside their own (market-making) circle of influence.  As best we can we try to pull together the peak priorities for the real asset managers and engineers who are responsible for these system.

* Building services engineers are responsible for the design, installation, operation and monitoring of the technical services in buildings (including mechanical, electrical and public health systems, also known as MEP or HVAC), in order to ensure the safe, comfortable and environmentally friendly operation. Building services engineers work closely with other construction professionals such as architects, structural engineers and quantity surveyors. Building services engineers influence the architectural design of building, in particular facades, in relation to energy efficiency and indoor environment, and can integrate local energy production (e.g. façade-integrated photovoltaics) or community-scale energy facilities (e.g. district heating). Building services engineers therefore play an important role in the design and operation of energy-efficient buildings (including green buildings, passive houses and zero energybuildings.  uses. With buildings accounting for about a third of all carbon emissions] and over a half of the global electricity demand, building services engineers play an important role in the move to a low-carbon society, hence mitigate global warming.

More:

Practical Essay on the Stength of Cast Iron and Other Metals  Thomas Tredgold (1882)

Dutch Institute for Fundamental Energy Research

System Aspects of Electrical Energy

IEC technical committees and subcommittees Ω SMB Tabulation

IEC and ITU offices | Geneva

Much economic activity in the global standards system involves products — not interoperability standards. Getting everything to work together — safely, cost effectively and simpler — is our raison d’etre.  

Manufacturers, testing laboratories, conformance authorities (whom we call vertical incumbents) are able to finance the cost of their advocacy — salaries, travel, lobbying, administration — into the cost of the product they sell to the end user (in our cases, estate managers in educational settlements).  To present products — most of which involve direct contact with a consumer — at a point of sale it must have a product certification label.  Not so with systems.  System certification requirements, if any, may originate in local public safety requirements; sometimes reaching into the occupational safety domain.

Our readings of the intent of this technical committee is to discover and promulgate best practice for “systems of products” — i.e. ideally interoperability characteristics throughout the full span of the system life cycle.

To quote Thomas Sowell:

“There are no absolute solutions to human problems, there are only tradeoffs.”  

Many problems have no solutions, only trade-offs in matters of degree.  We explain our lament over wicked problems in our About.

 

IEC technical committees and subcommittees

LEARN MORE:

 

If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration. - Nikola Tesla

ARCHIVE

The United States National Committee of  the International Electrotechnical Commission (USNA/IEC) seeks participants and an ANSI Technical Advisory Group (US TAG) Administrator for an IEC subcommittee (Multi-Agent System) developing standards for power system network management.   From the project prospectus:

Standardization in the field of network management in interconnected electric power systems with different time horizons including design, planning, market integration, operation and control.  SC 8C covers issues such as resilience, reliability, security, stability in transmission-level networks (generally with voltage 100kV or above) and also the impact of distribution level resources on the interconnected power system, e.g. conventional or aggregated Demand Side Resources (DSR) procured from markets.

SC 8C develops normative deliverables/guidelines/technical reports such as:

– Terms and definitions in area of network management,
– Guidelines for network design, planning, operation, control, and market integration
– Contingency criteria, classification, countermeasures, and controller response, as a basis of technical requirements for reliability, adequacy, security, stability and resilience analysis,
– Functional and technical requirements for network operation management systems, stability control systems, etc.
– Technical profiling of reserve products from DSRs for effective market integration.
– Technical requirements of wide-area operation, such as balancing reserve sharing, emergency power wheeling.

Individuals who are interested in becoming a participant or the TAG Administrator for SC 8C: Network Management are invited to contact Adelana Gladstein at [email protected] as soon as possible.

This opportunity, dealing with the system aspects of electrical energy supply (IEC TC 8), should at least interest electrical engineering research faculty and students involved in power security issues.   Participation would not only provide students with a front-row seat in power system integration but faculty can collaborate and compete (for research money) from the platform TC 8 administers.  We will refer it to the IEEE Education & Healthcare Facilities Committee which meets online 4 times monthly in European and American time zones.

Code ignis MMXXVII

Winter Holiday Fire Facts

NFPA Fire Protection Systems Catalog (Lorem ipsum)

Crosswalk: NFPA Fire Code and ICC International Fire Code

“Prometheus creating Man in the presence of Athena” 1802 Jean-Simon Berthélemy

Free public access to the current edition of NFPA’s parent fire safety document is linked below:

2024 NFPA 1 Fire Code 

We attend to occupancy-specific chapters (listed below) because of their significant presence in education communities.

Chapter 25: Grandstands and Bleachers, Folding and Telescopic Seating, Tents and Membrane Structures (N.B)

Chapter 26: Laboratories Using Chemicals

Chapter 29: Parking Garages

Chapter 32: Motion Picture and Television Production Studio Soundstages and Approved Production Facilities

Chapter 35: Animal Housing Facilities

Chapter 36: Telecommunication Facilities and Information Technology Equipment

Chapter 50: Commercial Cooking

Chapter 52: Energy Storage Systems

Some of the chapters reference other titles such as NFPA 45 Standard of Fire Protection for Laboratories Using Chemicals which support risk management in other occupancies.  It is noteworthy that in the 2021 revision cycle of NFPA 1 there are relatively few new concepts regarding education facilities that have been proposed.   You get a sampling of the ideas in play from the transcript of public input for the 2024 edition.

Public Input Report (525 Pages)

Use search terms such as school, college, university, dormitory(ies), laboratory(ies), classroom, children, day-care, student, et cetera for a sense of the ideas in play.

Results of the 2027 First Draft meetings have not yet been posted as on November 9, 2024.  A preview of the ideas in play can be found in the meeting minutes of the several committees linked below:

Fire Code (FCC-AAC): First Draft Meeting Minutes

First Draft: Fundamentals of the Fire Code (FCC-FUN)

Special Equipment, Processes and Hazardous Materials (FCC-HAZ)

Building Systems and Special Occupancies (FCC-OCP)

Public comment on the First Draft of the 2027 revision will be received until April 24, 2025.

We include NFPA 1 on our periodic fire safety colloquia — identified by the mnemonic Prometheus — and march along peak interests.

Campus fire safety is domain relatively well-covered by other organizations such as the Center for Campus Fire Safety and HigherEd Safety so we place NFPA 1 in the middle of our priority tier.   We are more interested in the harmonization of NFPA 1 with a competitor title International Fire Code; published by the International Code Council; to wit:

International Fire Code:   The purpose of this code is to establish the minimum requirements consistent with nationally recognized good practice for proving a reasonable level of life safety and property protection from the hazards of fire, explosion or dangerous conditions in new and existing buildings, structures or premises and to provide a reasonable level of safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations

Fire Code: The scope includes, but is not limited to, the following: (1) Inspection of permanent and temporary buildings, processes, equipment, systems, and other fire and related life safety situations (2) Investigation of fires, explosions, hazardous materials incidents, and other related emergency incidents (3) Review of construction plans, drawings, and specifications for life safety systems, fire protection systems, access, water supplies, processes, hazardous materials, and other fire and life safety issues (4) Fire and life safety education of fire brigades, employees, responsible parties, and the general public (5) Existing occupancies and conditions, the design and construction of new buildings, remodeling of existing buildings, and additions to existing buildings (6) Design, installation, alteration, modification, construction, maintenance, repairs, servicing, and testing of fire protection systems and equipment (7) Installation, use, storage, and handling of medical gas systems (8) Access requirements for fire department operations (9) Hazards from outside fires in vegetation, trash, building debris, and other materials (10) Regulation and control of special events including, but not limited to, assemblage of people, exhibits, trade shows, amusement parks, haunted houses, outdoor events, and other similar special temporary and permanent occupancies (11) Interior finish, decorations, furnishings, and other combustibles that contribute to fire spread, fire load, and smoke production (12) Storage, use, processing, handling, and on-site transportation of flammable and combustible gases, liquids, and solids (13) Storage, use, processing, handling, and on-site transportation of hazardous materials (14) Control of emergency operations and scenes (15) Conditions affecting fire fighter safety (16) Arrangement, design, construction, and alteration of new and existing means of egress

Note that both ICC and NFPA parent fire safety documents are developed on coincident 3-year cycles.

 

Issue: [18-90]

Category: Fire Safety, Public Safety

Colleagues: Mike Anthony,  Joshua W. Elvove, Joe DeRosier, Casey Grant

 

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